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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 9 post(s) |
La Nariz
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
3099
   |
Posted - 2014.11.25 19:51:29 -
[1] - Quote
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:Imagine if you will a setting whereby there is not enforcement or a lack of regulation about the age of consent to have sex.
Believe it or not, it was like that back in the 1980s. It was quite common for say a 16 yo to date a 14 yo, or an 18 with 15 year old. Nobody really cared as long as the two were teenagers and the "maturity level of the individual" was taken into account.
You know, that whole "she won't date me I'm just a Freshman" clich+¬ from all those dumb films in the 80s.
Now imagine if, lacking regs or enforcement, you have men in their 20s and up dating 12 year old girls. It becomes a bit too much, a bit "in your face" and most of all, a little difficult to pretend it's still OK.
So, there was no problem with the multi box thing, all "within the rules" and an area where while it appeared illegal it was not.....
and then, like the 30 year old dating the 12 year old, suddenly you have entire fleets gratuitously hoovering up entire belts, each pilot not even having a real name, all in the safety of highsec.
If there is one mistake that CCP tends to make, it's the underestimation of the Min-Max player. If there is one little tiny atom-sized little teensy iota of a chance that something will be taken all the way in one direction as the mechanics allow it, then it WILL. If there is a "possibility" of something, anything, and that possibility leads to more ISK or more stats, then that possibility by itself becomes the reality. Thera for example, if the stations can be death bubbled by dictors, it WILL and by people who have all the time in the world for it.
So, while the multibox fleet may be OK per the rules and all that, we have seen the min max sperglords take that all the way to the absurd.
And absurd, even if in the rules, eventually starts to look bad. People get to wondering "what kind of people am I dealing with here?" and nobody is really having a good time when hit with crazy vibes.
:wtc: this is liquified crazy injected into the forums.
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La Nariz
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
3103
|
Posted - 2014.11.26 00:50:18 -
[2] - Quote
Another unfair automated thing that can be removed is auto-repeat for mining equipment.
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La Nariz
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
3107
|
Posted - 2014.11.26 00:56:52 -
[3] - Quote
Tyberius Franklin wrote:La Nariz wrote:Another unfair automated thing that can be removed is auto-repeat for mining equipment. How is that unfair?
Repeated automated input without any user interaction, it gives an unfair advantage to those of us that use it. Its a fairly abused mechanic too if you consider all of the AFK miners about.
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La Nariz
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
3107
|
Posted - 2014.11.26 01:01:55 -
[4] - Quote
Hal Morsh wrote:1 person operated fleets won't be against the rules, just using a program to operate them all at once will be, you can still click through each client, you just can't use a program to automate it.
Even if you found a way for isboxer to delay it's commands randomly to each miner it would still be automation and against the rules.
Lets face it, isboxers were a literal cancer killing eve.
I agree using a program such as the .exe for eve to operate all the mining lasers at once and make them repeat exactly as the cycle ends is cancerous and killing eve.
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La Nariz
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
3107
|
Posted - 2014.11.26 01:05:42 -
[5] - Quote
Marilyn Maulerant wrote:La Nariz wrote:Tyberius Franklin wrote:La Nariz wrote:Another unfair automated thing that can be removed is auto-repeat for mining equipment. How is that unfair? Repeated automated input without any user interaction, it gives an unfair advantage to those of us that use it. Its a fairly abused mechanic too if you consider all of the AFK miners about. Then you wholeheartedly support applying the one cycle per click limit on ALL modules in EvE right? Armor reppers, shield boosters, resistance mods, guns, missiles, ect ect ect. o/
It doesn't make sense for non-mining equipment because in 10%TIDI we only get one cycle in the first place. Miners never experience 10%TIDI in great numbers so auto repeat as mike azariah put it "doesn't make sense."
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La Nariz
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
3108
|
Posted - 2014.11.26 01:10:51 -
[6] - Quote
Tyberius Franklin wrote:So outside of Tidi it would be fair for all modules since they operate the same and inside of Tidi it doesn't work thus it would still be fair to remove it for all modules.
Of course because of TIDI its necessary for other modules but, miners do not experience it in great numbers so its not necessary for them. As mike azariah would say "it doesn't make sense" for mining equipment to have auto-repeat.
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La Nariz
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
3108
|
Posted - 2014.11.26 01:15:03 -
[7] - Quote
Marilyn Maulerant wrote:
so then no?, and if so, you are a hypocrite.
if you wish to make something apply to a certain module just because you think it doesn't affect others, then you are forgetting about AFK OGBs, where the ship is left AFK for all intents and purposes to boost fleets, also, your argument about tidi is irrelevant since not everyone in EvE will ever be in that situation, how would fights be if everyone's guns and repppers stopped after one cycle?, what about the guys who go into an anom, and set out drones?, should their drones fire only one shot each and then disengage until told to fire again?
AFK miners pay for their being afk, there are many ganking organizations that just love to gank.grief AFK miners, so if you hate miners so much, why not just go join CODE and become a Knight of the New Order?
Its nuance, not that I expect you flagrant mechanic exploiters to understand the difference between the two. Auto repeat being a part of mining equipment is just as much of an grievous problem as isboxed bomber fleets. In fact the two are nearly identical which means auto repeat should not be on mining equipment.
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La Nariz
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
3108
|
Posted - 2014.11.26 01:18:38 -
[8] - Quote
Tyberius Franklin wrote:La Nariz wrote:Tyberius Franklin wrote:So outside of Tidi it would be fair for all modules since they operate the same and inside of Tidi it doesn't work thus it would still be fair to remove it for all modules. Of course because of TIDI its necessary for other modules but, miners do not experience it in great numbers so its not necessary for them. As mike azariah would say "it doesn't make sense" for mining equipment to have auto-repeat. The only fair solution then is that the use of any non-mining module with auto repeat will cause the engagement of Tidi and mining modules will have auto repeat removed. Since we are creating a global rule for one type based on a situational condition of another that situation also needs to become a global.
I can agree to this, the amount of TIDI in a system will be determined by current factors and now the amount of mining equipment in use. We should also add autopilot to this list because that is also unfair automation.
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La Nariz
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
3108
|
Posted - 2014.11.26 01:26:19 -
[9] - Quote
Marilyn Maulerant wrote:
w00t name called in 2 posts..
well My dear sir, I don't use IS-boxer LOL so I'm sorry if I hurt your feelings by pointing out facts.
I do run 4 monitors, and multiple accounts, and I click to each instance of the client to make it do my bidding.
I do also love how you've completely evaded my questions though.
GOOD JOB!!!!!!!
PS. I know some folks in CODE, I'd be willing to put in a good word for you if you'd like?
So basically you are a no good cheater that is abusing a mechanic.
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La Nariz
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
3108
|
Posted - 2014.11.26 01:32:15 -
[10] - Quote
Tyberius Franklin wrote:La Nariz wrote:Tyberius Franklin wrote:La Nariz wrote:Tyberius Franklin wrote:So outside of Tidi it would be fair for all modules since they operate the same and inside of Tidi it doesn't work thus it would still be fair to remove it for all modules. Of course because of TIDI its necessary for other modules but, miners do not experience it in great numbers so its not necessary for them. As mike azariah would say "it doesn't make sense" for mining equipment to have auto-repeat. The only fair solution then is that the use of any non-mining module with auto repeat will cause the engagement of Tidi and mining modules will have auto repeat removed. Since we are creating a global rule for one type based on a situational condition of another that situation also needs to become a global. I can agree to this, the amount of TIDI in a system will be determined by current factors and now the amount of mining equipment in use. We should also add autopilot to this list because that is also unfair automation. Current factors for Tidi are insufficient. As stated this needs to be global. Every non-mining module needs to induce a level of Tidi sufficient to cause auto repeat to fail at a rate comparable with the situations justifying the mining module nerf. This probably needs to include some dropped requests as well to get the full max Tidi experience, but that is debatable. Tidi would need full invocation regardless of node activity in order for tidi to be a justification for the wholesale removal of miner auto repeat.
The non-mining modules already induce a disproportionate amount of TIDI versus the mining modules hence they can be left alone.
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La Nariz
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
3108
|
Posted - 2014.11.26 01:33:05 -
[11] - Quote
Firestorm Delta wrote:La Nariz wrote:Marilyn Maulerant wrote:
w00t name called in 2 posts..
well My dear sir, I don't use IS-boxer LOL so I'm sorry if I hurt your feelings by pointing out facts.
I do run 4 monitors, and multiple accounts, and I click to each instance of the client to make it do my bidding.
I do also love how you've completely evaded my questions though.
GOOD JOB!!!!!!!
PS. I know some folks in CODE, I'd be willing to put in a good word for you if you'd like?
So basically you are a no good cheater that is abusing a mechanic. Actually quite legal to alt tab and click into different sessions to make them work, doing one click that affects more than a single session is in breach of the EULA.
Sure you can alt tab but, that automation that is running your mining lasers is unfair just like isboxer thus auto repeat must be removed from mining equipment.
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La Nariz
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
3111
|
Posted - 2014.11.26 01:49:20 -
[12] - Quote
Marilyn Maulerant wrote:La Nariz wrote:
Sure you can alt tab but, that automation that is running your mining lasers is unfair just like isboxer thus auto repeat must be removed from mining equipment.
Then by your own reasoning when you alt tab or switch screens and your guns are firing on auto-repeat it is just like IS-boxer and it is abusing a mechanic. Therefore by your own statement auto-repeat must be removed from EVERY module in EvE.
No you are wrong as mike azariah said "it doesn't make sense" removing auto-repeat from mining equipment is the only thing that makes sense.
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La Nariz
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
3111
|
Posted - 2014.11.26 01:50:42 -
[13] - Quote
Tyberius Franklin wrote:La Nariz wrote:The non-mining modules already induce a disproportionate amount of TIDI versus the mining modules hence they can be left alone. Total tidi production only makes sense as a factor if the reasoning being used is that miners are responsible for non miners voluntarily inducing controlled degradation. This isn't the case by your own admission. Maybe I'm missing something, but fundamentally I understand your claim to be that since some players voluntarily deny themselves the use of auto repeat selectively, others should have it removed arbitrarily and permanently. That only becomes justifiable is it's the same across all modules, so either all auto repeat needs removed or activation of non mining modules needs to guarantee the same penalty through tidi regardless of node condition.
What are you talking about? It makes plenty of sense and is totally justifiable to remove auto repeat from mining equipment. I do agree with you though that system TIDI should also scale with the amount of mining equipment being used.
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La Nariz
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
3114
|
Posted - 2014.11.26 01:56:08 -
[14] - Quote
Tyberius Franklin wrote:La Nariz wrote:
No you are wrong as mike azariah said "it doesn't make sense" removing auto-repeat from mining equipment is the only thing that makes sense.
A lot of people have said "it doesn't make sense" though that's meaningless without context. Perhaps you could point me in the direction of the context which justifies his being quoted here?
I don't have to he is the representative of highsec and in his words "it doesn't make sense."
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La Nariz
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
3114
|
Posted - 2014.11.26 01:58:34 -
[15] - Quote
Tyberius Franklin wrote:La Nariz wrote:Tyberius Franklin wrote:La Nariz wrote:The non-mining modules already induce a disproportionate amount of TIDI versus the mining modules hence they can be left alone. Total tidi production only makes sense as a factor if the reasoning being used is that miners are responsible for non miners voluntarily inducing controlled degradation. This isn't the case by your own admission. Maybe I'm missing something, but fundamentally I understand your claim to be that since some players voluntarily deny themselves the use of auto repeat selectively, others should have it removed arbitrarily and permanently. That only becomes justifiable is it's the same across all modules, so either all auto repeat needs removed or activation of non mining modules needs to guarantee the same penalty through tidi regardless of node condition. What are you talking about? It makes plenty of sense and is totally justifiable to remove auto repeat from mining equipment. I do agree with you though that system TIDI should also scale with the amount of mining equipment being used. Actually you haven't provided any justification as of yet, other than pointing out that someone said something doesn't make sense at some point in time in the past with potentially no relation to this. I thought you had a real reasoning here but I'm beginning to doubt.
It doesn't make sense both isboxer and mining equipment auto repeat are exploits.
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La Nariz
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
3114
|
Posted - 2014.11.26 01:59:20 -
[16] - Quote
Marilyn Maulerant wrote:La Nariz wrote:Marilyn Maulerant wrote:La Nariz wrote:
Sure you can alt tab but, that automation that is running your mining lasers is unfair just like isboxer thus auto repeat must be removed from mining equipment.
Then by your own reasoning when you alt tab or switch screens and your guns are firing on auto-repeat it is just like IS-boxer and it is abusing a mechanic. Therefore by your own statement auto-repeat must be removed from EVERY module in EvE. No you are wrong as mike azariah said "it doesn't make sense" removing auto-repeat from mining equipment is the only thing that makes sense. I am right my friend, and I am not the only one telling you this. you see, your argument?, "it doesn't make sense" if you want things to be fair to all. I do however appreciate you not calling me names this time.
I'm only using the argument your highsec representative used. It applied then so it applies now too. You need to be consistent.
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La Nariz
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
3115
|
Posted - 2014.11.26 02:08:15 -
[17] - Quote
Tyberius Franklin wrote:La Nariz wrote:Tyberius Franklin wrote:La Nariz wrote:
No you are wrong as mike azariah said "it doesn't make sense" removing auto-repeat from mining equipment is the only thing that makes sense.
A lot of people have said "it doesn't make sense" though that's meaningless without context. Perhaps you could point me in the direction of the context which justifies his being quoted here? I don't have to he is the representative of highsec and in his words "it doesn't make sense." Well, I'm done. An argument of absurdity from some sort of in joke can't make for anything resembling productive conversation. At best it can only degenerate to the counter claim "Removing auto repeat for miners is bad because mike azariah said 'it doesn't make sense.'" Let's just go with that. Edit: Are we(you/them?) mad at mike azariah for some reason? I've been out of touch for a bit.
Nah I'm just enjoying using some of his idiocy brilliance in an identical situation.
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La Nariz
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
3115
|
Posted - 2014.11.26 02:14:01 -
[18] - Quote
Marilyn Maulerant wrote:La Nariz wrote:
I'm only using the argument your highsec representative used. It applied then so it applies now too. You need to be consistent.
And I'm only using your own logic and statement that you based on that representative to come to the conclusion that auto-repeat on any module is just like IS-Boxer and should be removed from all modules, Mining, firing, repping, resistance, boosting, ect ect ect. Also, while I do like Mike and he was elected to be the rep for high sec, it was not by unanimous vote, so please don't tell folks he's "Their" rep unless you know how they in particular voted. Just saying.
No, no you're wrong you don't understand the nuance. I suppose I should be more considerate because you highsec people are woefully unaware and uneducated. You need to be more aware of your representatives doings and his logic applies here too.
ISBoxer and auto repeat being on mining equipment "doesn't make sense."
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La Nariz
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
3117
|
Posted - 2014.11.26 02:21:55 -
[19] - Quote
Marilyn Maulerant wrote:La Nariz wrote:
No, no you're wrong you don't understand the nuance. I suppose I should be more considerate because you highsec people are woefully unaware and uneducated. You need to be more aware of your representatives doings and his logic applies here too.
ISBoxer and auto repeat being on mining equipment "doesn't make sense."
Oh wait, I know what's wrong now I guess I need to move out of null and live in high sec... my bad.... BTW? Assumptive much? no need to answer that either, I'm going to follow the other fellow's lead and ignore your absurdity. you should probably look up the definition of nuance too as I don't think your explanations met the requirement to differentiate between an empty vessel and nuance, at least they didn't to myself and some other folks.
That means you admit defeat I've won the argument and am thus right, mining equipment should no longer have auto repeat.
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La Nariz
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
3117
|
Posted - 2014.11.26 06:14:00 -
[20] - Quote
Marilyn Maulerant wrote:La Nariz wrote:Marilyn Maulerant wrote:La Nariz wrote:
No, no you're wrong you don't understand the nuance. I suppose I should be more considerate because you highsec people are woefully unaware and uneducated. You need to be more aware of your representatives doings and his logic applies here too.
ISBoxer and auto repeat being on mining equipment "doesn't make sense."
Oh wait, I know what's wrong now I guess I need to move out of null and live in high sec... my bad.... BTW? Assumptive much? no need to answer that either, I'm going to follow the other fellow's lead and ignore your absurdity. you should probably look up the definition of nuance too as I don't think your explanations met the requirement to differentiate between an empty vessel and nuance, at least they didn't to myself and some other folks. OF course you live in highsec, if you didn't then you wouldn't have claimed mike azariah as your representative. You also would be more aware and less uneducated. That means you admit defeat I've won the argument and am thus right, mining equipment should no longer have auto repeat. no, i didn't, I simply am not going to waste any more time with someone who has absolutely no clue and evidently no ability to read what was presented to them. and I wasn't the one who claimed Mike, you're the one who said he was my rep.. LOL o/
Now this here is highsec thinking, I brought well thought out reasonable conclusions from ccp's recent is boxer announcement and all this guy does is shout incoherently. I can't believe we expose newbies to people like this, they are down right horrible, no wonder the game has trouble retaining trial accounts with cyber bullies like this dude around. Why can't you be reasonable and put your partisan highsec logic away so we can have a discussion?
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